{"id":11655,"date":"2023-08-17T12:35:50","date_gmt":"2023-08-17T10:35:50","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.matthieuricard.org\/?post_type=articles&p=11655"},"modified":"2023-08-17T12:37:30","modified_gmt":"2023-08-17T10:37:30","slug":"the-worlds-happiest-man-shares-his-three-rules-for-life-the-new-york-times","status":"publish","type":"articles","link":"https:\/\/www.matthieuricard.org\/en\/articles\/the-worlds-happiest-man-shares-his-three-rules-for-life-the-new-york-times\/","title":{"rendered":"The \u2018World\u2019s Happiest Man\u2019 Shares His Three Rules for Life – The New York Times"},"content":{"rendered":"\n
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https:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/interactive\/2023\/08\/13\/magazine\/matthieu-ricard-interview.html?searchResultPosition=1<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Aug. 11, 2023<\/p>\n\n\n\n

By David Marchese
Photo Illustration by Br\u00e1ulio Amado<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Matthieu Ricard is an ordained Buddhist monk and an internationally best- selling author of books about altruism, animal rights, happiness and wisdom. His humanitarian efforts led to his homeland\u2019s awarding him the French National Order of Merit. (Ricard\u2019s primary residence is a Nepalese monastery.) He was the Dalai Lama\u2019s French interpreter and holds a Ph.D in cellular genetics. In the early 2000s, researchers at the University of Wisconsin found that Ricard\u2019s brain produced gamma waves \u2014 which have been linked to learning, attention and memory \u2014 at such pronounced levels that the media named him \u201cthe world\u2019s happiest man.\u201d He was also late for our Zoom, and it was driving me nuts. Didn\u2019t he get my confirmation email? Why hadn\u2019t he emailed to say he was running late? I had deadlines! Tight deadlines! My carefully planned schedule was being shot to hell! Alas, everything turned out fine, as it was always going to. Clearly, I had much to learn about taming the mind. \u201cYou should not get quickly discouraged,\u201d said Ricard, whose memoir, \u201cNotebooks of a Wandering Monk,\u201d is forthcoming. \u201cYou cannot master playing the piano now. These skills take time.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

OK, so I\u2019ve been meditating twice a day for probably 15 years, and I feel as if it has improved my ability to control my thoughts and emotions instead of letting them control me. But still sometimes I\u2019ll walk by a mirror and have an extreme flash of self-loathing. Or I\u2019ll get all agitated over something stupid, like finding a parking spot. Will that stuff ever go away? <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Well, they can. Absolutely. You know, once I was on the India Today Conclave. 1 <\/strong>They said, \u201cCan you give us the three secrets of happiness?\u201d I said: \u201cFirst, there\u2019s no secret. Second, there\u2019s not just three points. Third, it takes a whole life, but it is the most worthy thing you can do.\u201d I\u2019m happy to feel I am on the right track. I cannot imagine feeling hate or wanting someone to suffer.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

It\u2019s not the best thing to say, but I can easily imagine wanting certain people to suffer. How are we supposed to deal gracefully with our polar opposites in a world that feels increasingly about polarities? I mean, the Dalai Lama could talk to Vladimir Putin all he wants, but Putin\u2019s not going to say, \u201cYour compassion has changed me.\u201d <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Once, a long time ago, someone said to me, who is the person you would like to spend 24 hours alone with? I said Saddam Hussein. I said, \u201cMaybe, maybe, some small change in him might be possible.\u201d When we speak of compassion, you want everybody to find happiness. No exception. You cannot just do that for those who are good to you or close to you. It has to be universal. You may say that Putin and Bashar al-Assad are the scum of humanity, and rightly so. But compassion is about remedying the suffering and its cause. How would that look? You can wish that the system that allowed someone like that to emerge is changed. I sometimes visualize Donald Trump going to hospitals, taking care of people, taking migrants to his home. You can wish that the cruelty, the indifference, the greed may disappear from these people\u2019s minds. That\u2019s compassion; that\u2019s being impartial.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

But why does compassion have to be universal? <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Because this is different from moral judgment. It doesn\u2019t prevent you from saying that those are walking psychopaths, that they have no heart. But compassion is to remedy suffering wherever it is, whatever form it takes and whoever causes it. So what is the object of compassion here? It is the hatred and the person under its power. If someone beats you with a stick, you don\u2019t get angry with the stick \u2014 you get angry with the person. These people we are talking about are like sticks in the hands of ignorance and hatred. We can judge the acts of a person at a particular time, but compassion is wishing that the present aspect of suffering and the causes of suffering may be remedied.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

What are the limits of compassion? Could blowing up a pipeline be a compassionate act? <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Well, we discussed a lot in those meetings with the Dalai Lama at the time of Kosovo what we call \u201csurgical\u201d violence. 2 <\/strong>But the problem is if it triggers a chain reaction, leading to escalation from both sides. Also, if the barrel is bad, all the apples get rotten, so the system has to change. You can see that with this deep divide now in the United States based on ignorance. Delusion is a cause of suffering. If you could get rid of that, that will alleviate suffering in many forms.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

For a while now, people have been calling you the world\u2019s happiest man. Do you feel that happy? <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

It\u2019s a big joke. We cannot know the level of happiness through neuroscience. It\u2019s a good title for journalists to use, but I cannot get rid of it. Maybe on my tomb, it will say, \u201cHere lies the happiest person in the world.\u201d Anyway, I enjoy every moment of life, but of course there are moments of extreme sadness \u2014 especially when you see so much suffering. But this should kindle your compassion, and if it kindles your compassion, you go to a stronger, healthier, more meaningful way of being. That\u2019s what I call happiness. It\u2019s not as if all the time you jump for joy. Happiness is more like your baseline. It\u2019s where you come to after the ups and downs, the joy and sorrows. We perceive even more intensely \u2014 bad taste, seeing someone suffer \u2014 but we keep this sense of the depth. That\u2019s what meditation brings.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Do you ever feel despair? <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

There\u2019s no point. We can feel sad if we see suffering, but sadness is not against a deep sense of eudaemonia, 3 <\/strong>of fulfillment, because sadness goes with compassion, sadness goes with determination to remedy the cause. Despair: You\u2019re at the bottom of the hole, there\u2019s no way out. That\u2019s fatalism. But suffering comes from causes and conditions. Those are impermanent, and impermanence is what allows for change.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Your response to my question about despair was, \u201cThere\u2019s no point,\u201d which suggests that you\u2019re making conscious choices about your feelings \u2014 whether to follow them or not \u2014 based on their perceived value. That\u2019s not something everyone is able to do. Short of also becoming a Buddhist monk, how might other people start developing the ability to control their<\/strong> emotions like you can? <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Emotions are just like any characteristic of our mental landscape: They can change. We can become more familiar with their process; we can catch them early. It\u2019s like when you see a pickpocket in a room: Aha, be careful. Twenty-five hundred years of contemplative science 4 <\/strong>and 40 years of neuroplasticity \u2014 everything tells you we can change. You were not born knowing how to write your columns. You know it\u2019s the fruit of your efforts. So why would major human qualities be engraved in stone from the start? That would be a total exception to every other skill we have. That\u2019s why I like the idea of Richard Davidson\u2019s 5 <\/strong>that happiness is a skill. It can be deeper, more present in your mental landscape. We deal with our mind from morning to evening, but we spend very little attention on improving the way we translate outer conditions, good or bad, into happiness or misery. And it\u2019s crucial, because that\u2019s what determines our day-to-day experience of the world!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

But if I were explaining that to someone, they still might say, OK, how do I change? Is the answer as simple as \u201cJust start thinking about compassion\u201d? <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

When you are in that moment of unconditional love \u2014 say, for a child \u2014 this fills our mind for 30 seconds, maybe a minute, then suddenly it\u2019s gone. We all have experienced that. The only difference now is to cultivate that in some way. Make it stay a little longer. Try to be quiet with it for 10 minutes, 20 minutes. If it goes away, try to bring it back. Give it vibrancy and presence. That\u2019s exactly what meditation is about. If you do that for 20 minutes a day, even for three weeks, this will trigger a change.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Who gets on your nerves at the monastery? <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

My nerves? Once in New York, when I was promoting one of my books, a very nice journalist lady said, \u201cWhat really upsets your nerves when you arrive in New York?\u201d I said, \u201cWhy do you presuppose anything is upsetting me?\u201d It\u2019s not about something being on your nerves. It\u2019s about trying to see the best way to proceed. Paul Ekman 6 <\/strong>once asked me to remember when I got really angry. I had to go back 20 years: I had a brand-new laptop, my first one, in Bhutan, and the monk who didn\u2019t know what it was, he was passing by with a bowl filled with roasted barley flour and spilled some on it. So I got mad, and then he looked at me, and he said, \u201cHa- ha, you\u2019re getting angry!\u201d That was about it. I get indignation all the time about things that should be remedied. Indignation is related to compassion. Anger can be out of malevolence.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Not to reduce 2,500 years of contemplative science to a single sentence, but is there a thought that you can suggest to people that they can carry in their minds that might be helpful to them as they go through life\u2019s challenges? <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

If you can, as much as possible, cultivate that quality of human warmth, wanting genuinely for other people to be happy; that\u2019s the best way to fulfill your own happiness. This is also the most gratifying state of mind. Those guys who believe in selfishness and say, \u201cYou do that because you feel good about it\u201d \u2014 this is so stupid. Because if you help others but you don\u2019t care a damn, then you won\u2019t feel anything! Wanting to separate doing something for others from feeling good yourself is like trying to make a flame that burns with light but no warmth. If we try humbly, with some happiness, to enhance our benevolence, that will be the best way to have a good life. That\u2019s the best modest advice I could give.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

What\u2019s the wisest thing the Dalai Lama ever said to you? <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I remember I came out of this one-year retreat to take care of my father. 7 <\/strong>At the same time I was interpreting for the Dalai Lama in Brussels. So I told him: \u201cI\u2019m going back to the retreat. What is your advice?\u201d He said, \u201cIn the beginning, meditate on compassion; in the middle, meditate on compassion; in the end, meditate on compassion.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Sorry, are you wearing an Apple Watch? <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Yes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Why does a Buddhist monk need an Apple Watch? <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I walk in the forest. I try to count 10,000 steps to be healthy at 77 years old. I don\u2019t do many interviews anymore, but when I do, I usually don\u2019t put this on, because the first thing the guys say is \u201cWhy do you have an Apple Watch?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I realize this is a question that no one on the path to enlightenment would ask, but broadly speaking, am I on the right path? <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

You?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Yes. <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

[Laughs.] I mean, I cannot make a clinical examination, but I feel that you resonate with ideas which are dear to me. So that\u2019s a good sign.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I\u2019ll take it! <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

If you had said, \u201cOh, that\u2019s all rubbish\u201d \u2014 you know, once there was a French journalist, very cynical, and he said to me, \u201cThis thing about becoming a better person and all that, this is the politics of the hash trade.\u201d I don\u2019t know what he meant. But what I said was, \u201cMy dear friend, if genuinely trying to become a better person and do a little good \u2014 if that\u2019s the politics of the hash trade, I\u2019m happy to spend my whole life in the hash trade.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n


This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity from two conversations.<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

David Marchese is a staff writer for the magazine and writes the Talk column. He recently interviewed Emma Chamberlain about leaving YouTube, Walter Mosley about a dumber America and Cal Newport about a new way to work.<\/em><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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